Dates in the reference panel

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Tim
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Re: Dates in the reference panel

Post by Tim »

I like Ussher better myself. If I could find a resource that has the Ussher dates linked to chapters or verses as well as events, I would use it.
Tim Morton
Developer, Bible Analyzer

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Rom 4:5 AV)

kathleenmarie
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Re: Dates in the reference panel

Post by kathleenmarie »

I am getting desperate enough to create my own textfile of dates from multiple sources that appear to rigidly adhere to the Ussher system. For most chapters/events I can find multiple resources that supply a date, even though I cannot find one resource that supplies all the dates. There is huge overlap of these resources and they mostly agree, often right down to the season/month.

This would be a huge project to undertake alone, but ... if I tackle it a chapter at a time, it would be finished before I am likely to stumble upon what I want already done for me.

I have done enough research to believe that there is no modern system that as a WHOLE is more accurate that Ussher. There are few dates that Ussher accommodated the scientists of his time, but modern chronologists do this more often and and modern scientists change their story more often, and they are making a far bigger mess of this than our forefathers did. It is natural for any chronologist to want to be validated by his peers. Right now, any modern chronologist is going to face greater temptation to do worse. The most important part of a timeline is the whole and its consistency to the whole.

epement
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Re: Dates in the reference panel

Post by epement »

Just curious, do you own a copy of The Handbook of Biblical Chronology (rev ed, 1998) by Jack Finegan? I have, and it's quite extensive. It's not arranged by chapter-and-event, as you might like, but it's immensely documented and academically thorough. He discusses the pros and cons of each position. If you don't own it, do what I did---buy a used copy from amazon.com, rather than pay full price.

On a related note, a year or two ago I obtained The Gentiles Times Reconsidered: Chronology and Christ's Return, 4th ed. (2004), by Carl Olof Jonsson. This is an unusually detailed study of chronology as relates to the destruction of Jerusalem and the false theory of Jehovah's Witnesses that it occurred in 607 BC. The author was originally a Jehovah's Witness pioneer, and what began as a 20-page research question sent to the Watchtower headquarters culminated with him leaving Jehovah's Witnesses and continuing a lifelong project on chronology and the false claims of the Watchtower Society on the invisible return of Christ.

Thinking about Jehovah's Witnesses may not be your cup of tea, but it is very helpful to see how and why certain chronological decisions are made.
Eric Pement
2 Cor. 4:5

kathleenmarie
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Re: Dates in the reference panel

Post by kathleenmarie »

The problem with all these books on Chronology is that they all offer a different system that is supposedly the only "correct" one, but they do not offer a "complete" system, chapter by chapter, and event by event. I have read a lot of them. I become less impressed with each new book I read. And many of them go out of print soon after being published.

I am realizing that the BibleHub system is more common than I thought. It appears to be used by Ron Rhodes in Chronological Tour, Baker Book of Bible Charts, Tyndale life Application Chronological Bible, and Rose Bible Timeline.

Tim
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Re: Dates in the reference panel

Post by Tim »

Look at this list,
https://mythbank.com/the-bible-in-chronological-order/

It seems based on the one Biblehub but the NT dates are different by about three years. It is interesting that believers cannot even agree on the year Christ was born or died and resurrected.

What I like about Ussher is he seems to have just worked backwards using the Scriptures as much as possible using outside souces only secondarily. That is how he can give specific years instead of a range of years. For instance, he has the flood as "2349 BC." Biblehub just has "Before 2500 BC."
Tim Morton
Developer, Bible Analyzer

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Rom 4:5 AV)

kathleenmarie
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Re: Dates in the reference panel

Post by kathleenmarie »

Yes, that 3 year thing with the NT. There are a couple secular dates that Christians would like to link scripture too, and if both are linked, then you need to extend the life of Jesus longer than is traditional. Scofield stretches Jesus ministry to 7 years. Bullinger bows out and stops adding dates to the margins, after offering exhaustive dates for the OT. The NT is more controversial than the OT, even though it is more recent. Most chronologists link to one of the 2 secular dates and retain the 3 year ministry.

The Biblehub dates are vague for the early years, but it is pretty simple to count backwards and tighten those up by merely adding an additional 170 years to Ussher's dates. I would not simply add +170 to any Ussher dates after Abraham though. There are multiple points that Christians disagree on. and it is important to know which events are measured by which events.

I have now collected all the resources needed to fully flesh out the Ussher system, including syncing to secular events, but I just don't have them typed out into a text document. For my own studies it would be so much easier to transition to the Biblehub system and just add 170 to the early Ussher dates. I am considering that. I am tired and I did not realize how much support there is for the system underling the system used by Biblehub.

There is controversy even if a chronologist does not consider secular events at all. Not all the Bible is as easy to date as the initial genealogies. And Ussher did his share of syncing to secular events. Ussher is neither better or worse than the others. Ussher has more people basing their work upon his, and most of that work is in the public domain; and that is what gives him an edge, for me.

The Bible hub dates are about 170 years newer, but the main issue of Biblehub vs Ussher is not the absence or addition of the early dates. There are multiple different choices all the way through. And these differences can affect doctrine, especially prophecy, and issues important to dispensationalists. Bullinger stopped adding dates for the NT for a reason. It is the same reason why so many resources offer exhaustive dates for select portions of scripture and none for other portions. Their pet doctrine doesn't fit into ANY dating system that supported another pet doctrine. The 3 year thing in the NT is just one such example.

kathleenmarie
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Re: Dates in the reference panel

Post by kathleenmarie »

Peleg is a critical date.

Four generations after Noah, Genesis 10:25 records the birth of Peleg (meaning division) “for in his days was the earth divided”.
https://answersingenesis.org/bible-hist ... -of-peleg/

According to the biblical chronology as deduced by Archbishop Ussher, the Flood occurred in 2349–2348 BC, and Peleg was born in 2247 BC about a hundred years later.

... that would place the founding of Babylon in 2234 BC, or about thirteen years after the birth of Peleg

... Cambyses, king of Persia, conquered Egypt in 526 BC, gives us the year of 2188 BC for the founding of Egypt,3 about 60 years after the birth of Peleg. About this time Mizraim, the son of Ham, led his colony into Egypt

Eusebius king of the Greek city of Sicyon,... started to reign about 160 years after the birth of Peleg.

Tower of Babel occurred five years after the birth of Peleg.

Note that Babylon, Egypt, and Greece each spoke a different language. ... The Tower of Babel would have had to have occurred before the founding of these other kingdoms. Babel (Babylon), being in the same region as the Tower, would have been one of the earliest kingdoms, of course.

kathleenmarie
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Re: Dates in the reference panel

Post by kathleenmarie »

An alternative dating for Peleg, that also used Peleg as a critical dating event.

https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j31 ... _80-87.pdf

This paper discusses and seeks to identify the date of the Babel event from the writing of biblical and extra-biblical sources.
This is a relevant question for creationists because of questions about the timing of post-Flood climatic changes and
human migration. ... The preferred solution of this paper ... places the Babel event 340 years post-Flood at Peleg’s death. Other texts of the
Second Temple period vary from this by only three to six decades, which lends some support to the conclusion.

kathleenmarie
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Re: Dates in the reference panel

Post by kathleenmarie »

Summary of today's research, in case it is useful to anyone. This fills in what is missing for the Biblehub Timeline

Gen 1 4174 BC
Gen 2 4174 BC
Gen 3 4173 BC
Gen 4:8 4046
Gen 5:3 4044
Gen 5:32 2616
Gen 6:10 2618
Gen 7:11 2518
Gen 8:13 2517
Gen 9 2517
Gen 10:25 2416
Gen 11:8 2411
Gen 11:27 2166
Job born 1898

Gen 1 4174 BC Abraham born 2008 years after creation (Charting the Bible Chronologically, Hindson & Ice)
Gen 2 4174 BC
Gen 3 4173 BC
Gen 4:8 4046 Cain kills Abel 128 years after creation (soon before Seth born)
Gen 5:3 4044 Seth born 130 years after creation
Gen 5:32 2616 Shem born 1558 years after creation (Hindson & Ice)
Gen 6:10 2618 Noah 500 years old and born 1056 years after creation (Hindson & Ice)
Gen 7:11 2518 Flood 1656 Years after creation (Hindson & Ice)
Gen 8:13 2517 Flood lasts 371 days (Hindson & Ice)
Gen 9 2517
Gen 10:25 2416 Peleg born 101 years after flood (Answers in Genesis)
Gen 11:8 2411 Babel 5 years after Peleg born (Answers in Genesis)
Gen 11:27 2166 Abraham born (Ron Rhodes and others)
Job born 1898 1 year after Joseph sold into slavery (Bullinger)

Based on Mystery of History vol 1 textbook and above resources
Stone Age Gen 1-3
Early Bronze Age Gen 4-11
Ice age 2500-1800 Gen 9-50 (overlaps with Bronze Ages in peoples dispersed to North)
Middle Bronze Age Gen 12-50

Peleg was born 101 years after flood

The founding of Babylon about thirteen years after the birth of Peleg. 2403 BC

... Cambyses, king of Persia, conquered Egypt about 60 years after the birth of Peleg. About this time Mizraim, the son of Ham, led his colony into Egypt. 2356 BC

Eusebius king of the Greek city of Sicyon,... started to reign about 160 years after the birth of Peleg. 2256 BC

Tower of Babel occurred five years after the birth of Peleg. 2411 BC Note that Babylon, Egypt, and Greece each spoke a different language. ... The Tower of Babel would have had to have occurred before the founding of these other kingdoms. Babel (Babylon), being in the same region as the Tower, would have been one of the earliest kingdoms, of course.

Tim
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Re: Dates in the reference panel

Post by Tim »

This is an improvement for the Bible hub list.

One question people will ask, though, is where is the 170 or so years difference with Ussher. Where and why was Ussher wrong?
Tim Morton
Developer, Bible Analyzer

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Rom 4:5 AV)

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